Logic and Synth V --- impressions so far

Synthesizer V Studio
1

I used it for a couple of hours and here are some issues in my experience:

  1. Lyric input is clunky. The Tab key does not go from note to note. You have to click on each new one.
  2. Pasting a set of lyrics in does not work correctly. It does not split up the words, but instead crams all syllables of a word into one note. You have to edit your lyrics to be only one syllable each. e.g. If you paste the word “happiness” into a three note melody, it will sing “happiness” really fast on the first note only and leave the last two notes empty. But if you paste in “ha pee ness” it will fill all three notes correctly.
  3. You cannot drop and drag or copy and paste MIDI notes into SV. You can only IMPORT MIDI. So if you have a MIDI track in Logic you want SV to use, you have to export it, then import it. And even then it does not line up correctly - you have to nudge it around.
  4. You cannot record notes into SV and hear the rest of your tracks at the same time! This is a major problem!!! You either hear SV’s synth, or you hear your other tracks, but not both. So it is IMPOSSIBLE to play a MIDI keyboard into SV while listening to your tracks. This is a serious issue, since that would be the most intuitive way to use the plugin.
  5. The manual is not great. There are things missing and also there are things that contradict the actual program.

The good points:

  1. Editing notes in the grid is easy and works very very well.
  2. The sound is amazing! I’ve only used the SOLARIA voice so far, but she sounds like a real singer. You have to tweak the timing a bit, etc., but man it sounds gorgeous! Definitely worth having to record the melody on another track, export it as MIDI, then import it into the SV track.

I don’t know what the talk is about the ARA stuff. I never dealt with that and don’t know if it’s being used or not. I’m on a Mac Studio with Sonoma 14.7.2 with Logic 11.1.1 (the latest as of Dec. 24, 2024).

I’m going to look into the ARA thing, but there are conflicting reports. Apple says ARA 2 is fully implemented in Logic. But the SV manual says ARA doesn’t work in Logic except with the Bridge (whatever that is) and booting Logic with Rosetta. I’ll check it out and see if it fixes some of the problems I listed. And it doesn’t say if it’s ARA or ARA 2.

Since Logic is the most popular DAW, I think it would benefit Dreamtonics to ensure full ARA 2 compatibility in Logic, and to fix other clunky issues. More money for them!

2

Nope, I use tab every days. See on the manual: Use tab on notes

Read further the manual, you can add a ‘+’ on next notes (tab) and Dreamtonics made it for you :slight_smile: See the manual: special-symbols-for-lyrics

I don’t use it with “Logic”, because I’m on Windows… And the drag and drop works fine. I use it every day. But to be complete, notes are imported at the beginning of the new track and you need to move them to the desired timing position. (I made a script on my side to compensate for this, thanks to this great feature scripting of Dreamtonics!).

I don’t use this software this way. I record my leads in the DAW and then drag/drop the result into SynthV. But I tried it to check this and: I start playing the DAW and then I click on the record button of SynthV and it’s ok on my side for this point.

Another manual made by Claire (see the link, often share by me on this forum…): Other manual
See the special chapter for lyrics: entering-lyrics

Yes, in Cubase it works but I don’t use it because sometimes I’ve been confronted with bad behaviors (no sound, song that doesn’t play). ARA is interesting to synchronize the DAW with SynthV especially if you want to record directly with SynthV. But I prefer reliability.

4 Likes
3

actually it’s up to the mac OS and the DAW (logic in this case) to FULLY support the ARA protocol. ARA works flawlessly in Cakewalk Sonar for ARA plugins (known as “region fx”). as a note, i don’t use the SV in my DAW very often and only for quick conversions, then take that project into the standalone version to do the actual work, with a simple 2-track reference of the instruments. then export the vocals as WAV and import in to the main project to do the mix. saves computer resources, and i don’t get any weirdness when there is a lot of FX and VI going on in the main project.

4
  1. I bought the software yesterday after goofing around with the basic for a day. I extensively used the tab key in the daw using logic. I agree some other things are klunky but the tab key worked.

Any chance you have the tab key setup in a custom mapping?

  1. As the other poster said. You are going it wrong. Works as designed and allows you to fine tune your phrasing. Did you watch the tutorials or read the manual? I found them quite helpful.

  2. Did not know that was an advertised feature. Going to have to look into that. I did export midi from logic and then import it into the plug-in. Once in there I extensively used copy paste. The paste is a bit weird about where it gets pasted but it works.

I don’t know anything about ARA but I have seen lots of people talk about having to use Rosetta.

5

Thanks for your super helpful response!

Your note about the + symbol was especially nice – I started using this immediately.

Alas, the tab key does not work correctly for me. Yes, when you hit Tab it goes to the next lyric box, BUT NOT IN ENTRY MODE. You still have to click on the box to be able to type anything in, and therefore the tab is meaningless in terms of saving time. It is, in fact, a waste of motion.

The workflow should be:

  1. Click on lyric box.
  2. Enter word,
  3. Hit tab and have it go to next word.
  4. Start typing other word.
    Unfortunately, the user is required to do another step between #3 and #4, which is double click on the lyric box. So tab is a waste of time ATM.

I’ve figured out a workaround for lack of cooperation between SV and Logic – I have to hit a separate transport button on an external device to have it play all the tracks. If I just hit spacebar (which normally starts Logic playback), it only plays SV with no Logic sounds. That’s fine.

The results are worth the kludge.

6

Blockquote And the drag and drop works fine. I use it every day. But to be complete, notes are imported at the beginning of the new track and you need to move them to the desired timing position. (I made a script on my side to compensate for this, thanks to this great feature scripting of Dreamtonics!). I don’t use this software this way. I record my leads in the DAW and then drag/drop the result into SynthV. But I tried it to check this and: I start playing the DAW and then I click on the record button of SynthV and it’s ok on my side for this point. Another manual made by Claire (see the link, often share by me on this forum…): Other manual 2 See the special chapter for lyrics: entering-lyrics

Alas, drag and drop is not possible in Logic. Nothing happens.

Having to move MIDI around after importing is annoying. SCRIPTING??? I’m not a freaking programmer – I want to make music, not script things, whatever the hell that is :slight_smile: It’s great that you can do that, but that sort of thing only annoys me because it’s time spent not making music.

I will try your way of starting the DAW then clicking on record. Which brings up another bug – the transport controls in SV appear and disappear! What the heck?!? So annoying.

Thanks for the manual reference – I’ll look at it.

Thank you for all your help!

7

I agree with you. And using existing scripts from other users could help improve workflow. Some repetitive and boring tasks can be a drag on creativity.
Scripting is meant to compensate for the lack of tool features in a product. In my DAW, I often dream of having this way to automate some stuff.

Yes this is a context tool bar. This to show us what is currently being editing. The Piano Roll… or … the Arrangement view. So if you stay on the Arrangement view or re-focus on it the tool bar will display again.
But another way is to use a shortcut. By default, record is assigned to:
“numpad " But in my side this is not working in SynthV. So I could assign a new shortcut that works everytime like "”.

1 Like
8

In my SynthV, when I enter a word (ie. “la” for a special improvisation and a great creativity in mind :wink:) then I use the Tab key to go to the next note. And not by using the “Enter” key before! This takes you out of lyrics entry mode.

Sure, everything works on other DAWs. So with a future release, this might be a thing of the past. For the record, ARA and ARA2 are only used to internally sync the DAW and SynthV.Nothing but an audio track and dedicated plugins to work on it. With a perfect copy/paste part and so on… In Cubase, I prefer not to use it because of the instability and often the absence of an audio track (necessary to use ARA modes).

1 Like
9

I don’t know if any other users with Logic can’t use drag&drop… Maybe other users in this forum could confirm this?
Or is there a specific setup or logic on “Logic”?

10

Not 100% sure what you mean by drag and drop but… If you select notes you can drag them around the piano roll. If you drag a midi file into the plugin it will ask if you want to import and create track. You cannot drag them or copy/paste from logics piano roll into the plugin piano roll.

11

Yes, I agree, no direct deposit on the Piano Roll. But possible to drag and drop to create a new track and use the imported notes as desired without exporting a midi file. And it’s much faster to stay in the DAW.

1 Like
12

Thank you for your suggestions, especial from jfa. I’ve got a better workflow going now.

Here are the current bugs:

  1. Importing a MIDI track does not line up with the original timing.
  2. THE MEASURE NUMBER IN THE SV WINDOW DO NOT MATCH THE MEASURES IN LOGIC! This is SUPER annoying. In other words, SV says it’s on measure 2, but Logic is really on measure two and a half or something. Lots of dragging and fiddling to get it right. This is something quite basic and is a bug that needs to be addressed ASAP.
  3. assign key to Seek to the Beginning of playback does not work
  4. When recording into SV with a keyboard, it record to the DAW as well — meaning you have to erase notes in the track every time.
  5. When hitting Record in the plugin, THE DAW IS NOT HEARD AT ALL. So you cannot hear the music you are recording to.
  6. no popup explaining what the hell icons mean
  7. No icon/clickable way to zoom in. Uses key commands which are often taken by the system or the DAW. There should be little + and - icons to zoom in/out.
  8. Transport appears and disappears. Have to keep clicking. WTF?
  9. Nonstandard Mac interface. Cannot option drag to copy notes. This is VERY annoying. Copy-dragging notes to create new notes is Mac standard and really speeds the workflow.
  10. Adding a + to make multisyllabic words last over more notes is
    very buggy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. It doesn’t matter if the notes abut each other or not. Sometimes, I delete, then redo the lyric and + sign and suddenly it works. (With no other changes).

This is all without the ARA Bridge – which in the manual is confusing and makes no sense. I tried it and Logic did not like it :slight_smile: No help.

GREAT STUFF: Piano roll editing is fast, intuitive and works very well.

VOICES: I’ve tried Hayden and Solaria. Hayden is barely adequate, but works ok. I’d only use it for sketching, never for a final product. He simply sounds too strained. Solaria is stunning. I’d use her for a final release. They really need a male voice as good as Solaria. She is the reason to buy the product.

VERDICT: With the right voice, the result is nothing short of astounding. And most importantly – very musical. I’ve heard a few songs with Solaria on Spotify, and it was clear that they were not making the most of it. You have to go in and adjust timing and expressions, and you will be rewarded with a voice that sounds 99% as good as the real thing. For mission critical projects, I will hire a real singer, but I’ll give them the SV voice as a guide track.

Synthesizer V has quickly become a very valuable and useful tool in my workflow. I’m looking forward to a better male voice being released soon.

13

I don’t know what you’re getting at. When I export a midi track (the whole track) from DAW and import it into SynthV, the timing is fine. And I need to check the tempo from the host (using the corresponding option menu).

Sure, the plugin is not synced and that’s why ARA mode could help.
But mouse navigation is independent for internal use of SynthV and it is also useful to work on voice parameters etc. Many tasks in SynthV do not concern the DAW at all. But ARA is the way to have better sync. Better but not complete. I never use it in my DAW because of the stability of the software.

Some users never use the plugin for more stability (16 voice choirs…) and export the voicing result to the DAW. For me the plugin is useful, I don’t have to export anything, everything is used in the same place. A complete integration is not possible for all voices plugin because of limitations of each software. So some compromises are necessary to work with several DAWs.

When I affect CTRL + ALT + B it works for me. CTRL + B is already assigned to the internal “Note Properties”.

I prefer to record the main vocal melody in the DAW and then drag and drop the note clip to SynthV (helped by a special script…). But when I record directly to SynthV, it only records to SynthV (maybe it’s because my shortcut is not the same as the DAW to start the record mode). I start playing on the DAW to hear the playback and then I start recording the notes from SynthV. It works but it’s too tedious for me.

As I said above, I start playing on the DAW to listen to the playback and after (only after…) I do a recording action on SynthV. It’s possible but… well, I never use it like that currently. I prefer the interaction and display of notes inside my DAW to insert melodies.

Maybe a pop-in I guess you mean, but a description in the status bar is there to help you. Have you checked the “Show Status Bar” option in the settings menu?

I use CTRL + mouse wheel for this.

Yes, it is a context menu. It only appears if you have the focus on the corresponding window (Arrangement view or Piano Roll). I never use them, preferring to use shortcuts for that.

I don’t know about your DAW, but in Cubase we use the standard CTRL-C/-V to duplicate, then with the mouse we drag and drop the copied notes. This in the DAW and also in SynthV. It works the same for me.

I have never had any problems with lyrics input. If all notes are well linked together (without “SIL” or space). Everything works for me and all the time in standalone mode or plugin. Have you also tried the shortcuts CTRL -L to insert lyrics?

Yes, the ARA bridge could be useful if it is reliable. Although the constraints to use it could also do without an audio track in my case.

I don’t know about your expectation on a mal voice. But have you checked all the existing male voices: ASTERIAN, Kevin, Ritchy, D-Lin, Jin, Jun, Riku, SAROS, OSCAR, Mo Chen, Noa hex, Frimomen, An Xiao, Wei shu, Genbu, Muxin, Xuan Yu, Lin Lai etc…

I hope all this information can help you compose many great songs!

2 Likes