SV2 2.0.7 crashes when moving note groups between different SV2 tracks!

Synthesizer V Studio
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I recently stumbled over a nasty bug when working with SV2 2.0.7 inside my Cubase 14 Pro DAW, running on a Windows 11 24H2 system.

Let’s assume there’s an SV2-based MIDI instrument track available in your Cubase project which is already in ARA BRIDGE MODE (meaning it has been linked to a related Cubase audio track containing an emty audio clip which is further associated to the SV2 ARA plugin extension). Let’s also say you have that SV2 instrument track currently opened up and pinned in order to stay in the foreground at any time.

Now, let’s further assume that you have one single (unnamed) track available inside the SV2 plugin which you’re currently working on. You have already created several note groups, whereas each of these groups contains SV2 voice data in it, and each of these groups has already been assigned to a particular SV2 voice (but not so for the unnamed SV2 track containing all these note groups which still has “No default voice” assigned yet). That’s the initial situation which I saved in my Cubase project and from where I’m able to reproduce the following issue at any time:

When you’re now creating a new and empty SV2 track (by right-clicking under the existing original track in SV2’s ARRANGEMENT section and using the popup menu and its “Create a New Track” feature), everything seems to be still fine. Now choose any of the note groups available in the first original track by selecting it with the mouse and simply left-drag that group over to the newly created empty track below. Also here everything seems to be still okay. At least when trying to play back the song, everything will be audible exactly in the same way as if all SV2 groups would still reside within the same single SV2 track. So far so good. However, if you then decide to mouse-drag the mentioned group from the new SV2 track back to the original one (where it was once located), Cubase will crash immediately. There’s no way to recover your work at this time if you haven’t saved it previously; all you can do is to kill the complete Cubase process and to start over from the last saved status.

This is really a very nasty bug! I just checked again, and as far as I can tell, it doesen’t seem to be related to ARA. In fact, it will also happen when still operating the SV2 plugin in a basic SV2 environment setup. That’s really annoying!

Can anybody from the community eventually reproduce this behavior also? Just let me know. Thanks!

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I tried with and without ara, but without any problems. I created groups with different voices applied on 2 tracks without any problems. Even while playing…

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Additional info:
Even if avoiding any mouse activity and just using key commands instead, like pressing [Ctrl+X] or [CTRL+C] for getting the group first from the existing track and then trying to paste it to the newly created track by using [CTRL+V] won’t work. In this case, Cubase immediately quits (without any error message at all). Not sure what is messed up here.

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Hi @jfa, thanks for testing.
Did you “move whole groups” between different tracks, or did you select individual voice data and moved those around? Personally I’d like to move whole groups and exactly there’s where my problems seem to start.

Edit: I just recreated the whole scenario described above, by using the same recent DAW version (Cubase 14.0.20) and loading one of my other (previously created) songs. Exactly the same behavior there when creating a new track there and trying to move one particular group from an existing track to a new track and then back again. From my personal point of view this must be a SV2 bug, as both projects contain totally different SV2 voices and tracks. It’s very unlikely that SV2 is not the cause of that issue.

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Yes, I move with the mouse (left button) from track 1 to track 2 and from track 2 to track 1 of any selected group (with a SOLARIA 2 voice) and another group (with SAROS 2) without problems. I also tried copy/paste only one time, without crash. However, my Cubase 14 was empty, without effects or mastering plug-ins.
And default voice of all tracks with no voice.

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Yes, exactly like my newest song I was testing first. It currently contains two DAW tracks only at the moment. The SV2 MIDI instrument track and the Audio track with the audio clip and the linked ARA extension. But the crash happens anyway - every time I’m performing that move between different SV2-internal tracks.

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You can try with a completely new project. Restart your computer, create a new project without ARA, a new track with new notes (a few notes), limited to two groups, and save it in a new folder. Then try moving groups to a new track.

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Okay, I got some new findings. Now I’m even more sure than before that it’s all an SV2 issue and is related to the way how exactly any new track is added inside the SV2 plugin.

If you create that “new track” in a different way than what I initially described above, namely by using the command “Duplicate Track (Unlinked)”, and if you then delete all groups that were copied over automatically to that new track, and finally try to move any groups between track 1 and track 2 (back and forth as many times as you want) nothing bad will happen!

Again, for me that looks like a incorrect implementation of the “Create a New Track” command, as it only introduces issues which occur at a later time.

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In my side, I only used create a new track, not a duplicated one. I can not reproduce this.

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Okay, thanks @jfa for checking again.
Maybe it’s my individual fate I have to face, because I have mixed different voice settings (including different “default languages”) in individual groups located within the same SV2 track. For example, some groups contain voices set to English while some other groups containing some simple “oohs” and “aahs” are set to Chinese (as they simply sound better like that). Maybe when creating a new track with the “Create a New Track” method and trying to move groups back and forth, SV2 expects that the old and the new tracks 100% match with their track/voice parameters before letting a user move included groups around. For now I can’t find any other explanation than that. After all, the error doesn’t show up whenever “duplicating” an existing track, deleting its groups entirely and continue from there. In my case the issue will always happen only when creating the track with the “Create a New Track” command.

I’ll take it for now. At least I have found a workaround to avoid such a crash in the future, and that is all that currently matters to me. Thanks again for your support.

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After excessive testing today, I can only re-emphase my initial claim that there’s something completely wrong with SV 2.0.7. The described issue, crashing SV2 whenever moving (empty or datafilled) note groups between two tracks within SV2, is not only limited to the SV2 plugin version itself (or any DAW containing that plugin). No, the described issue also applies to SV 2.0.7 standalone application!

Again here’s what I did: After rebooting my PC in order to avoid any possible SV2 leftovers in memory, I started up SV2 standalone. After the editor window appeared, I drew some notes to the grid without any further activity. SV2 automatically created a note groop around these events. So far so good.

After that, I created a new track right under the existing one by right-clicking on the left background inside the “Arranger” section, and I selected “Create a New Track (unlinked)”. Still everything okay, as the new track appeared immediately.

But here comes the banger:
When attempting to drag the mentioned note group from the initial track over to the newly created empty track, the SV2 standalone application quits itself without any further warning and you’re back at your windows desktop. This seems to be the same bad behavior as already explained above whenever operating SV2 inside a DAW (like Cubase 14 Pro in my case). But at least in case of the SV2 plugin version, Cubase finds the time to tell the user that SV2 has become unstable before hanging itself, while the SV2 standalone version doesn’t even bother to report any errors to the user - it just quits.

It also doesn’t matter if the initial track or its containing group is named or unnamed, if voices are already assigned or not, or even if note or parameter events are actually inside (e.g. you can also delete all of those again before proceeding). The issue will simply occur everytime at the moment when mouse-dragging the group over to the newly created SV2 track. In every of my tested attempts, SV2 will quit automatically without any warning. Of course, after the next start, SV2 will always claim that it is able to “recover” the last crashed session. Yes, it can really open up the project again at the last working status (where the note group is still on its initial location), but it will simply crash another time if you’re repeating the whole procedure.

For reference:
I’m running Windows 11 Pro, 24H2, Build 26100.3915
Intel i9-12k900k, 128GB RAM

Edit:
And as my last attempt, I even downloaded Dreamtonics “sample project”, as I’m anyway owning all necessary SV2 voices to run this (except Mo Xu). When moving around any of its groups between any available tracks, everything is still okay; nothing bad happens. However, after creating a new track at the bottom and moving any of these existing tracks over and then back, SV2 crashes again as described. Sorry, but now there’s not much more left for me to prove that the software needs some overhaul in order to be really compliant with the latest Windows OS releases.

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Dunno what I can tell you my friend … works fine here. Followed your plan and everything worked - with or without voices applied, a mixture of V1 and V2 voices … standalone or VST … all with the same result.

Cubase 14 Pro (ARA Bridge Mode)

AMD Ryzen 7 7700X 32 GB RAM Windows 11 Home 24H2
Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.83.0

I know there are a lot of conversations over on the Cubase forum about i9 issues, but that shouldn’t affect the standalone app.