[Solaria II] Porta Regni Umbrarum (gothic melodic metal)

This is the sequel to one of my previous songs – Filia Fraudis.
Filia Fraudis was the prophecy backing the first part of the story I am writing, this one is a second prophecy, behind the second part of the story, and foretells of a greater darkness should the previous one fail.

Soundcloud - Porta Regni Umbrarum


Title: Porta Regni Umbrarum (The Gate to the Kingdom of Shadows)
Lyrics: me
Vocals: Solaria II
Music: Suno


Si Dominus Fraudis cadet,
et Filia Fraudis vincet;
consilium novum patefiet,
tenebra maior mundum obruiet.

In antro Diaboli occulto,
est introitus umbrarum profundo;
clavis sublata est et perdita,
ianua clausa atque recondita.

Clavis rursus reperietur,
Via reditus invenietur;
Parata vivificiet,
Porta Regni Umbrarum aperiet.

Filia Fraudis necessaria est,
Clavem quaerere aenigma est;
In lingua daemonalis scribitur,
id ab sola illa legitur.

Sanguis obscurus requiritur,
in quo ambo mundi coniungitur.
Quo sanguine clavis pontem faciet,
et ianua Umbrarum aperiet.


English version:

If the Lord of Lies should fall,
and the Daughter of Lies should prevail,
a new plan will be revealed,
and a greater darkness will engulf the world.

In the Devil’s hidden lair,
lies the gateway to the deepest shadows;
the key is taken and lost,
the door is shut and sealed away.

The key will be found once more,
the path of return will be uncovered;
the chosen one shall awaken it,
and open the Gate to the Kingdom of Shadows.

The Daughter of Lies is required,
to seek the key, a riddle to solve;
it is written in the tongue of demons,
and she alone can read its words.

Dark blood is required,
in which both worlds are bound as one.
With that blood, the key will form a bridge,
and open the Gate of Shadows.

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It’s not the first song that has caught my attention, where the author of the music is Suno. But this one caught my attention a little more. I’m just interested in who created the arrangement. There is energy and mood in the accompaniment. Unfortunately, I have no right to evaluate the text, because a mere translation is not informative enough. It’s good to immediately understand the singing. And the melodiousness of Latin is known and is related to the melodiousness of Italian.

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I apologize to KorSkarn - if he described his style of work elsewhere. I am 74 years old and I forget posts I have read quite quickly.

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Thanks for liking my song!

My process to make it is this:

  • I write the lyrics myself, no AI anymore, only my first four songs (out of a growing number, almost finished wiritng lyrics for the 24th) still contain some AI text.
  • Since composing the music is a skill I do not (yet) have, I use Suno to generate a prototype of the music. This is somewhat akin to using the services of a ghost composer / music ghostwriter, but with (somewhat) more control, faster turnaround, and is considerably less costly!
  • I split the stems (separate vocals from instruments) so I have one track that is vocals only, one that is instruments only.
  • I remake the vocal track in Synthesizer V, which allows me, among others, to fix glitches from Suno that are difficult to fix within Suno, and also to get voice consistency accross all tracks from the project. I want them all sung by the same (virtual) singer, as if they were all from the same band.
  • In my DAW, I do post-processing on the vocals track (compressor, drive, reverb, delay, multiply, EQ, etc) and mix with the instrumental track from Suno (which I use as-is).

This is the step at which the songs I posted are so far.

Eventually, my plan is to also replace the Suno instrumental track with a human-made one, so that the final version of the song is a human-made cover of the prototype generated with Suno.

Now, as for my process within Suno, I just don’t write a plain prompt, hit the button and take the first result. The prompt needs to be correctly crafted to get good results. There is an old saying in the computing field (I am a computer engineer) that is still valid today, especially with transformative AI: garbage in, garbage out. I know the feel/vibe/type of sound I want from the song (including band/album consistency accross multiple songs), and it usually takes a lot of tries (often dozens) before I get the one that best resonates with what I want from it.

I like very much symphonic metal (Nightwish for instance) so I like gettign either orchestral instruments, piano or violin mixed in my metal songs. Those that have violin, the idea is inspired from Lindsey Stirling whose music I like.

To answer what you’re wondering, Suno made the arrangement and I chose the one that gave me the feeling of “this is the one” from a lot of versions. This “this is the one” feeling comes when it fits what I had in mind, and I listen to it and just want to keep it on repeat over and over and over again, and then more.

So, while Suno made it, the energy and mood are what I was seeking from the start, the kind of sound and vibe I want out of the entire project (all the while having the songs sound different from each other while belonging together). For the whole project, several hundreds of unfitting versions sit at the bottom of the trash bin, witnesses of my attempts to get the right one for each song.

This song has something different from my previous ones though: Suno just released a new version 4.5 model about 2 weeks ago, this song is generated using v4.5 while the others were done using v4.

As for Latin vs English, yes understanding the original language can help, but personally, I like songs in other languages even when I don’t understand, and my brain treats the vocals as a highly sophisticated instrument, catching a few meaningful words here and there.
This one, along with Filia Fraudis (The Daughter of Lies) and the upcoming Fata Geminata (Twinned Destinies) are a series of medieval prophecies forming the backbone of my trilogy, so it makes sense to have the prophecies written in Latin - and have the songs in Latin as well.
Most of my songs are in english though! Got 3 in Latin, one in German, one in French (I’m french native) and the rest is in English.

French will be hard to get right in Synthesizer V (get rid of any foreign accent) but I’d like to try that challenge!

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That’s a beautiful description of how you create and can use what’s offered to you and create a great song in collaboration with AI. You have a lot of patience to listen to a lot of options and choose the right one, and that’s what I lack, who can write lyrics or music and set the lyrics to music or write lyrics to music, make an arrangement and prepare it for mixing. And also manage to sing the song along with the created vocals using the Synthesizer from Dreamtonics. I hope that didn’t confuse you. My art is at an amateur level and I realize that there are better lyricists, composers and arrangers. They are all professionals and they have to do a great job, unlike me, an amateur who creates only for fun, without any responsibility. I’ve just written a lot of lyrics for professional bands, for which I’ve received a lot of money. However, they didn’t let me write music, so I don’t write lyrics for others anymore. It would be good for Suno if he offered the possibility of collaboration and, for example, added a good chorus to my verse with my melody. Or gave me a few notes and I finished it. I think this approach could lead you to start writing music too. It’s different for me. I don’t dare to write a text in English, where I can catch (understand) every fourth or fifth word in the spoken word. I can write Czech texts and I know how good it is to use sound painting in texts. I have published four songs on this forum (there were more on the previous forum). The four songs were created in such a way that each was created in a different way. And maybe one of those ways will inspire you. But I’ll be brief and only tell you more if you’re interested. And I’m not sad that I didn’t write a real hit. For me, as an amateur, it’s the same as winning the lottery.

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  1. So I’ll keep talking

At first I wrote the lyrics in Czech to a song by Bonnie Raitt - Love has no pride. After that I kept the lyrics to myself. About a year later I set the lyrics to music, but in some passages I used the original music and sang the song and played the acoustic guitar only at home alone. Then I put the song aside for five years. After five years I picked up the guitar and set the lyrics to music with my own music, so that even an experienced musician would confirm that they are two different songs. My friend - a great singer helped me bring the song to a better level, so he is registered with me as a co-author. I have no problems collaborating with other authors. And I quite enjoy it.

  1. The blues during which I wouldn’t slip on

I wrote this song so that the lyrics and music came together at the same time. I wrote the lyrics while playing the guitar, where I liked the harmonic progression that I liked to repeat. The text was then based on an experience when I went to dance clubs when I was 16. I don’t have any friends here as a co-author.

  1. Láska je jen proud nov - (Love is just a stream)

I wrote Czech lyrics for a band - “Love is a rose” by Neil Young, sung by Linda Ronstadt. The bandleader created a four-part vocal in that song and it started to be a problem (the Czech proud also had a consonant p, unlike the English rose, and the vocal didn’t come out of the singers’ mouths in a fast song. In terms of the sound painting of the text, it was my fault, although the whole band liked the text in terms of content). I put the text aside in 1986 and tried to set the text to music for 20 years. I only started to like it (about) the thirteenth version in the form of a blues. But blues is slow and there is a lot of text in a fast song and the blues exceeded 7 minutes without solos and overtures at the end. Here I put aside a pretty good musical idea that I am waiting to finish, and I hope to do so soon. I already have the motif in the Synthesizer. In 2008 I had a new version ready, which we finished at my singer friend’s house (he is a co-author of one of the above-mentioned songs). However, we finished it in three. There was a great musician with us - a keyboardist, who played 7 tracks for me based on my midi drums, bass and guitar (4x piano, one of which was Fender and the tracks were strings and others). My inspiration was increased and with a joint effort I finished the melody of the song. Later I wrote it out into more voices and used it in the Synthesizer. I sang it in the studio and used the voices from the Synthesizer. He also used 7 tracks from the keyboard from 2008 and added a similar number of his own tracks.

  1. Vampire - experiment

I won’t write the procedure here, as it is described in detail here on the forum:

In case you are interested, I can provide links to other songs on this forum, but you can easily search for them by their titles on my list of posts in my gauzde profile.

I have one more idea how you could start composing, with the help of a friend - a good musician who doesn’t create music himself.

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You may be an amateur, but you’ve written lyrics for professionals, and you’ve been into music for a long time. You’ve achieve a lot more than me, comparatively, I am like a newborn baby.
And I can’t even sing at all, I completely block just at the thought of trying!

7 months ago, I had never done any of this, had never written any lyrics, had almost zero music background, didn’t event know what a DAW was!
It all started with a though popping in my head: it might be cool if I used AI to create a theme song for my story. So I went ahead and tried it. Then did one for the second part of the trilogy. And one for the 3rd part. Then I got a surge of inspiration, drawing from various themes and topics in my story. That is how my project was born. What was supposed to be only a single song ended up being an entire project that currently contains 23 songs, plus a new one for which I am currently writing the lyrics (almost complete, only need the last verse).
That last one I’ll keep it for something different. I’ll keep it to try composing the music. I am not ready yet though, still got much to learn from.
When I get to make the instrumental tracks for the other songs, I will learn a lot.
Using RipX, i’ll be able to “reverse engineer” the Suno songs and see how they are constructed, that will be a good insight before i can star composing the music. There is one thing wth composing that I think will be difficult for me. I don’t know how others do it, but whenevr I get into some creative endeavor, be it graphic, written or music, I usually don’t burden myself with theory or “this is the way to do it”. Rather, I go by instinct and feelings, making my own path.
And something just struck me as I wrote that. That is somewhat similar to my main character and how she chooses to follow her own path rather than the one set for her in prophecy. And how her supernatural abilities work - by instinct and feelings. Back to what I was saying - so, for composing a song, I would have to “hear” the song in my head, but I am having a hard time getting rid of the interference from other existing songs popping up and filling up the blank spaces.

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A newborn baby wouldn’t write such a nice song. Each of us has a different path and each of us chose it at a different time. Your path is new and it will depend on you whether you or AI will be dominant. If you are dominant, then you will be one step further than someone who lets AI do everything for him. I could give you a lot of advice now and I am offering it directly. But I will leave the choice of your path up to you. It’s a shame that I won’t know where you have ended up in a long time. I am already past my zenith and I won’t be here for another 100 years, even if I wanted to live that long. I could recommend one piece of software, Band in a box from PGMUSIC, and these days I mostly use RealBand, where I feel more free (it’s only for Windows). I bought it in 2005 because it would be a great music encyclopedia of enormous scope for me to learn (just one example - how the bass guitar is played differently in different styles - you hear and see the notes and learn - but it was only in midi sound). A little later, professional musicians started recording live variations of different instruments for Band in a box (RealBand) (this is just my rough view of the matter - I am not qualified to give an expert interpretation). And so RealTracks began, with which you can go to the studio. So instead of an encyclopedia, I started using RealBand to create instrumental tracks for a given song. It is not the only source for instrumental tracks. I also use the Kontakt and Opus modules and other individual instruments for DAW, where I have to enter the notes into them and the instrument will play them for me. I can use the offered techniques for the given virtual instrument for the notes. With RealBand (Band in a box), you just enter the harmony and the application gradually creates more variations for the given instrument. I don’t use the option that allows me to create an entire arrangement for the chosen style. I only choose what suits me and I like. I can change the tracks in the notes as I want and for the wav track I can use Melodyne or Ripx. Thanks to the Synthesizer from Dreamtonics, I can hum a melodic line of instruments and put it into midi. For example, if I have a wav with a separate bass guitar, Melodyne or Ripx will also put it into midi for me. I would rather end it here, because I fully realize that this is a forum for Dreamtonic applications. But the combination of the Synthesizer with other music applications has worked for me. However, your path will also have its pitfalls. For many people, working on music, where I help myself in some stages of creation with AI, is somewhat misleading. You have no chance to convince people that you are largely involved in the creation, but for many you have the merit of pressing one button and AI will do everything for you and replace you after some time. You become an unjudged braggart for them. And you can say that you use a Synthesizer with AI for singing. It will be worse for you, because in their eyes you have been replaced by SUNO. Reject these opinions in your conscience and ignore them. Your path is also human, created with joy, and for many people without complexes, your songs bring satisfaction.

Yes, Suno and you have done a good job. There’s a dense atmosphere in the song, and it sounds like your own individual style, in spite of the fact that Suno provided the material.
May I add some proposals from the view of someone who is used to prog metal for the time you’re getting into midi and making the song completely your own?

  • How about some variations, embellishments, developments in the vocals and other parts, f.e. The violin?
  • Might seem too conventional for you, but how about a guitar solo before the outro begins?

Thanks for the description of your process with Suno and SynthV. I like the track, but I do feel like there could be more varied expression and dynamic range in the vocals, so they had just a bit more punch in a few places.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions!

Indeed. While I do not yet know how to compose myself, I have a clear vision of what I want the project to be, to sound like. Each song is meticulously selected among a large number of candidates to closely match the vision I have for it as well as its place within the whole. Thogether they form a cohesive and consistent tighly woven tapestry, built on a strong narrative fundation. They are defenitely not an haphazard collection of unrelated songs.

As for the style, it is influenced by my two top bands, namely Nightwish and Within Temptation, yet distict from either, I don’t want my project to sound like a Nightwish or a Within Temptation copycat!

I do intend to try and add my own touch once I’ll get to that step. One thing for instance, there are some songs where I would like to adjust the balance between the guitar and the other instruments. For some, while I like the song very much, I feel like the orchestral part is a bit weaker than I would like. Also, I got the idea to include a more prominent violin part (like in Creature of the Night) only later, and even then, I couldn’t yet make Suno add it reliably, so for some earlier songs I’d like to experiment and see what it would be like if I added a violin track. And I have one song, it fits the mood I wanted very very well, but the guitar is too weak (err… absent?) from the verses so I’d like to try adding a subtle background guitar layer.

In general, I do include an “[instrumental break]” (that’s a metadata I can put in the lyrics for Suno to control the song structure) in the intro and also before the outro. Porta Regni Umbrarum does have a short break before the outro, and a longer one before the final line. But they are not guitar solos though. Given the symphonic metal influence in my songs, they are less guitar-centric and give more place to other instruments, such as orchetral instruments, piano or violin. So usually, it is these instruments that are at the forefront in the breaks, rather than guitar, and that is how I like it. I really like the blend of orcherstral or folkloric instruments in metal, with less dominating guitar. That is why I like the S&M versions of Metallica songs more than the originals (that is the live show they did with the San Francisco Symphonic Orchestra) and likewise for Within Temptation’s Black Symphony (again, live show with a full symphonic orchestra).

Thanks for your feedback! The next few times I listen to this track, I’ll do so with your comment in mind, and try to work out how it could be improved.

The use of AI in creative work is an interesting debate with widely diverging, even polarized, opinions. I like how you put it, and it goes along the same lines as I think (as well as a judge in a court ruling about copyrighting works than contains AI-generated elements). It’s really a matter of how much human creative input the works contains vs how much AI output, and also how much that AI output is used as-is or is afterwards transformed or integrated into something human-made.
For my part, I drive the AI and keep it under tight reins, I do not let the AI drive me. Others might think as they want, I know how much of my own creative input goes into this, and I am doing this first and foremost for my own enjoyment. I don’t care about what people who are not open-minded enough to accept the involvement of AI might say. There is more than enough non-AI content for them out there. Personally, I don’t mind the use of AI when it is well used, but there are also people who are using it in a more mindless and lazy way (not even always bothering to reject bad outputs and retry).

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I’ve said too much here, so here’s just something thing else I stand by. From your song, I feel that although the AI ​​share is large, you have your creation in your own hands. And I feel that you can use AI better than I can. But my excuse for me is my age and that I’ve stayed in the last century musically. I’m better off there in terms of creation. But I take the new things as nice steps forward.

It’s good to see another 74 year old on here. I welcome the company, although I’m really impressed with much of what our young users are doing with their original music these days. Keep up the great work everyone!

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How could SUNO be useful? I can’t write lyrics for songs in English. I will be able to give SUNO my song with my Czech lyrics and Suno will create English lyrics for me that can be used to sing my song in English, with the content of the English lyrics being at least somewhat similar to the content of my Czech lyrics. I am afraid that SUNO can’t do this, and it is not the goal of SUNO to help authors like this. AI should not just replace human creative activity, but should be able to cooperate step by step for mutual satisfaction. But I basically have nothing against SUNO’s current activities. We are not competing.

Try as I might, I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say here.
Do you mean you would like to take a song you made in Czech, and have the vocals translated and sung in English? If that is the case, Suno most likely can’t help you for that. It would be capable of generating a new song with whatever lyrics you give it in whatever language, but keep the same song and replace the lyrics to another language, that it can’t. For this, Synthesizer V would be a better choice to sing your vocal track in english, once you have your english version lyrics. If you would like to use AI to translate from Czech to English, you could use ChatGPT, that is what I used to translate my songs into Latin (and one in German too), but watch out, as it makes mistakes. It is very important to make it validate the version it generated (in a separate conversation so its unbiased) to ensure it is syntactically and grammatically correct, and that it aligns well with your original. Make a round-trip back to Czech and see if the meaning remains the same. the process requires several rounds of validation/correction, and can sometimes be a bit tedious. this process can easily be a step by step, iterative cooperation.

I totally agree with that, it should not replace human creativity, The way I see it, the human should first have an idea, a vision of what he wants to create, and the AI is merely a tool to assist in bringing that vision to life.

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the pronunciation is not so bad (i don’t know latin but I’m italian)
did you use spanish language mode?

I apologize for the way I presented my previous post, but it was somewhat intentional. If I had just asked, I would have received a brief answer - “no” … But you gave me an excellent explanation and it was completely exhaustive. I admit that I have no intention of enriching my songs with an English version of the text. I would have to solve the problem of the onomatopoeia of the text and other problems that have arisen. I will give a simplified example. In the song “That’ll be today”, try replacing the voiced consonants with voiceless ones and the song slogan will stop “stomping” … I am 74 years old, I receive a pension and so my creative activity is without financial reward and is for my pleasure and I enjoy it. I was wondering what SUNO cannot do and what it probably will not deal with and it is difficult for me to understand just by reading their website. There will be more of these secret areas. However, I like your approach, that you bring the baton to the finish line - “you”. What bothers me about the introduction of artificial intelligence is that it tries to replace people primarily in creative activities and helping in other activities (not always), and which are needy activity are neglected. But I won’t solve that and I’ll leave it to the younger ones, whom I trust and keep my fingers crossed for…

Yes I am using spanish.
I am using the suno song as reference, but there are areas where pronunciation needs to be adjusted, as Sunot is clueless as whether to use classical or ecclesiastical pronunciation, so its a bit random and inconsistent accross the song, even on repetitions of the same word. I have the word “necesse” twice in another song, first time it said “.n e s e s e” (classical) while the second time it said “.n e ch e s e” (ecclesiastical).
It leans more towards classical though, and I needed it to be ecclesiastical, since it is meant to be a (fictionnal) medieval prophecy.