After the upgrade old SV1 tracks open empty inside Cubase

Synthesizer V Studio
1

An interesting thing has happened after I upgraded to V2:

Inside the Cubase 13 Pro files where I’ve been using the V1 as a plugin on a track, all my V1 tracks now open empty.
When I use the “Edit instrument” on a Cubase track it opens the V1 as it should, but the V1 tracks are empty from data and there is no voice selected.

The only change I had done was my upgrade to V2.

Needless to say, I’m quite unhappy.
Luckily I haven’t been working such way (using Synth V as a plugin) for a long time, so there’s just one project destroyed. And I do have some very old svp files for that.

I have no idea how that has happened. How can an upgrade affect to things saved inside a Cubase save file?

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None, and the update isn’t one. It’s not an update; it’s the installation of a new, completely independent application. So, there’s no connection. There’s probably a problem with Cubase and the OS. An update (a real one this time) that impacted this particular project.
If this Cubase project uses the plugin with the save as host option, this is the wrong choice, especially in case of a crash. It’s better to save the SynthV project to an external file; it’s safer.
Several times, I’ve noticed that when opening a project, Cubase displays a message indicating that the last execution went wrong. Even though I didn’t notice anything when closing it.
Caution dictates that saving externally to be independent of Cubase is much more reassuring.

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Thank you @jfa for your response.
I’m using Windows 10 and all my previous saves of that project behave the same way. They are separate files, although in a same directory.

And what makes this specific to Synth V is that I have an EzBass track where I’m also using its internal sequencer. But it is not affected by any means.

Therefore I still suspect that there has something gone wrong in my Synth V upgrade process.

Well anyway, I can restore some of my work and later I will certainly save the Synth V tracks onto a separate file before closing Cubase.

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4

I have a Cubase 14 Pro project (Windows 11) using Synth V1.

Earlier today I added in an instance of V2 to run some comparisons, but when I went to open the V1 instance I got a message along the lines of ‘this project has been created in a newer version …’ and it was indeed empty.

A clear warning that when using VST versions we should save the Synth project to an external file as a backup, as having two separate instances of the two different versions in the same Cubase project definitely seems to be causing problems and losing some valuable data.

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So I’ve been able to replicate this, and here’s what happened, and how to avoid it (could be the same for you, or not).

I opened a Cubase project with a SV1 track. I went in to SV1 and saved the SV file to my desktop.
I added a SV2 track, loaded the SV1 file, and assigned an SV2 voice to it. I worked on it a bit, then saved my Cubase project file
[if you like suspense, skip this bit, because this is the key] I deleted my SV1 project file from my desktop.
I opened my Cubase project, and the SV file was gone, both from my SV2 track and from my SV1 track.
I exited Cubase again, retrieved my SV1 file from my trash, and put it back on the desktop. I opened Cubase again, and there it was - it appeared in both my SV1 track and my SV2 track.

I don’t really understand WHY this is happening, but obviously when I save and load files from and to Synth-V, it thinks I want to start working with external files, instead of the data being part of the Cubase file, which is how I normally work, and sure enough, under the File menu, there is an option to save to external file, or Save Inside Host.

So, to avoid the problem, after loading your SV1 file into SV2, go to File > Save Inside Host. For the purposes of integrity of your SV1 file, do the same in SV1.

Now its safe to delete the separate file from your desktop.

I consider this a bug, even though technically its a configuration issue. You can avoid it from happening, but it does require action when you’re converting files from v1 to v2, and thus saving and loading externally.

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6

Thanks for the clarification @themidimachine I suppose in the long term I may start saving the Synth V project files in the Cubase project folder, but further down the line if you try to import (CB) tracks into a new project then we could end up with problems.

Useful to know what is going on!

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Further to my last post, the information provided by @themidimachine does pan out as I remember now that to run the comparisons between V1 and V2 in the same Cubase project I had previously exported the V1 project, then imported it into the V2 instance.

This seems to be when Synth V automatically switches from saving inside host to saving to an external project and promptly lost the V1 information.

I’ll test this thoroughly later, but while not technically a bug, it something users need to be aware of.

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@manassas77 note that in my case there was no SV2 involved except that I had upgraded my SV1 before.
And after the upgrade the SV1 opened empty inside Cubase.
I would have understood if using a SV1 file in SV2 would have caused problems. But that an upgrade affects to the previous version goes over my head.

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Just curious - do you still have the Cubase file? I’m just wondering if somehow with your update of SV1, it changed the behaviour of running inside the host to external file - this would more likely be an actual bug, being behaviour that is not as planned. This would be an easy check by looking at the current setting inside of Synth-V, under the file menu. One of the two options (save inside host, or save to external file) will be checked. I have to say that I am doubtful that SV2 has anything to do with your problem, and that you would have had the issue regardless of upgrading. I do understand that SV1 and SV2 are linked, even though they run independently, but in your case, it seems to be an issue with SV1, not an issue with the upgrade.

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@Jaaba I can’t compare as I don’t have any C13 projects using Synth V. Do you have any .bak Cubase files that you could open to see if the same empty project error occurs?

As @jfa says, they are independent installations (V1 & V2) but it is clear when we use two instances of different releases in the same Cubase project there IS some as yet undetermined interaction between them.

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@themidimachine I’ve got several files where the SV1 window is now empty. Every single file of them doesn’t have even a voice chosen for the track anymore.
They were all working well prior the upgrade to SV2. Now they’re all empty.

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And the File menu shows “Save inside Host” checked, but it is in grey.
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@manassas77 same with the backup files. And I was using just a single instance of SV1 in them.

But anyway, I won’t be trusting in saving inside the host anymore. It’s not a big deal to save it on a separate file. Besides, I’m then able to edit the track in standalone version too.

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12

Very odd … one last suggestion, try opening a new, blank project in Cubase and import the SV track from one of the .bak files just to see if that affects the outcome.

I presume you haven’t upgraded to CB14?

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Same results when importing the SV track from one of my backup files to a new blank Cubase project, an empty track inside the SV1 plugin.
No, I haven’t upgraded to CB14, I will skip that and probably upgrade to Cubase 15 on Autumn (?).